Outsider no more,Toomey shoring up status in GOP…
OPED: ‘Welcome to our tent. GOP has plenty of room for honest debate’…
Outsider no more,Toomey shoring up status in GOP…
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79 Comments
"A fiscal conservative who has led efforts to unseat other Republicans in previous elections as head of the Club for Growth, Toomey has alienated many in the party."
GOOD!
And that's precisely why they will stab him in the back at the first opportunity.
Joining the cacophony for the Republican Party to turn Left and become more inclusive was the subject of many Editorial. This song was song after each loss and ultimately shifts the center further and further to the Left. If winning is more important that principle, there is a Party already there with welcoming arms open. The incremental slip toward even more socialism and ultimately totalitarianism is facilitated by all those moderates with sliding principles. As a Conservative first and foremost and a Republican much less significantly, I will stand by those principles including the right to life and await the consequences. We are powerless to sway a population so dumbed down by the public school system, popular media, and an extremely well funded and organized movement to create an oligarchy and the enslavement of the mindless populace. Conservatism takes an effort to find the truth and the capacity to admit when you are wrong and accept a new opinion that can be justified by the facts. This is why Talk Radio is an extremely important force, though dismissed as entertainers. No, they are the educators that no longer exist anywhere else and those who deride them don't understand their significance.
With a populace whose only contact with reality is American Idol, Crime Scene shows and "reality TV" like professional wrestling, a Party based upon truth, knowledge and patriotism hasn't a chance until the socialist go too far breaking the Constitution. This is likely to happen and spark a revolutionary backlash. It may be when the First Amendment is gone or when the Second is on the ropes.
We are living the prophesy that it takes about 200 years for a republic to realize that the population will learn to vote themselves bread and circuses and the system will fall. After the fall, someone must be there to pick up the pieces and found a new order with safeguards that will block the cycle from repeating itself.
What do you care?
Pat's Party Pap!! Y-e-c-c-h!
The GOP leadership – whether trustworthy or not – doesn't really have a choice: either they want to beat the turncoat Specter and the Democrats, or they want the seat to remain in Democrat hands for the next six years.
They tried to torpedo Toomey with Ridge, and a small cadre will try to do it with Gerlach – but they will end up failing, too. They have no ammo left in their guns.
As for Asher, I really don't care what he thinks. Heck, I don't understand why rank-and-file voters of all stripes haven't started to boycott Asher Chocolates in order to bring this ninnie to his knees…
Let's all take a deep breath and give Toomey a chance. He needs to establish or re-establish himself on a statewide basis. He also needs to convince a lot of folks that he has a realistic chance of winning.
My unsolicited advice to Toomey is: present an inspirational vision to the people of PA. Have a positive platform, which will rally voters to support you. This can be done without sacrificing your basic principles.
Specter is tread-bare and worn. He certainly is not inspirational and lacks any positive vision besides medical research. He's had his chance and has now firmly established himself as a pompous pontificating, phony, politicized, petty, pandering and unprincipled politician.
SS
Pat Toomey is a down to earth small business background guy who was lucky enough to spend six years in Washington and lead the Club for Growth group.
He has a different vision than the Government-Big Business Complex that has developed in this country in the last eight months or so.
Agreed!
Yesterday, for the second time in less than a month, I received a fundraising phone call from the PA GOP. As I did on the first call, I explained I would not donate because I did not want any potential donation to be used for negative mailers against Republican primary candidates that I support.
I mentioned the carpet bombing of negative mailers sent by the PA GOP against Folmer and Eichelberger, and in particular, I mentioned my concerns regarding the PA GOP in the upcoming Pat Toomey Senate primary.
Needless to say, the caller was not to happy. If the PA GOP leadership realizes that their effort to “moderate” is costing $$$$, maybe the party will stop trying to be “Democrat lite”.
Correct!
Outstanding op-ed by Pat Toomey and how much more centered than to support Limited Government, Individual Freedom, the Constitution, the Rule of Law?
ditto
I wonder if Asher and company are starting to realize that it is time to join the bandwagon or get run over.
If so, watch your back.
.
ditto and "fiscal conservative" another of saying 'no earmarks". Hacks everywhere are afraid,
Pat has successfully destroyed Specter and Ridge without spending a dime. It's about time that someone in the Party give him his due.
Great article. Concise and articulates Republican conservative values without being "mean spirited". I say well done.
Until the PA GOP actually endorses Toomey – my $$ will go directly to him – period.
Even after the GOP endorses him, your money should go to him if you want him to benefit from your contributions. The party is NOT TO BE TRUSTED.
You beat me to it on that warning! lol
You betcha! (great minds think alike)
I've been a republican since I was old enough to vote, many years ago. My proudest days as a republican were the Regan years. Things have been going down hill ever since Regan. For the first time in my life I'm not real proud to be a republican. The republican's have lost their way. The party leader's are out of touch with the people, it has turned into a money and power game. It's no longer important for our party leader's to put up the best candidate's with the most experience, who can actually win elections. It's become a monopoly game. The one with the most money and houses gets their pick. They decide who we get to vote for. It's just not right! I vote for open primaries, let the people decide! We need real change, young innovative ideas, candidates that can energize our party, not the same old same old.
One problem with open primaries seems to be that they are more open to manipulation. Lots of Democrats had Spector signs in their yards (back when he was a Republican), and if they could have crossed over, his margin of victory over Toomey would have been far, far greater.
In a primary with a Republican leftist vs. a Republican conservative, Dems would do everything they could to ensure that if their candidate were to be beaten in the general election, it wouldn't be by a conservative.
I don't feel Spector has been a Republican for sometime now. It's great that he finally is being up front about it. He and his family had been more supportive of their Democrat friends then their own Republican party elected officials. They turned down opportunities to help others in the Republican party in fear of upsetting their Democrat friends.
I honestly don't see how things could be anymore manipulated. Things are pretty bad. I just wish someone would have enough nerve to stand up for what's right.
Why do you care what she cares?
And if you don't understand why anyone would want good people in government, then you are either an idiot or a troll and a hack. Or both.
Can't you just keep your nastiness to yourself?
You were pretty much on target defining the problem, but your solution would only make things worse.
An analogy that I use regarding open primaries is that it would be the equivalent of the Cleveland fans picking the Steeler players.
Are cross over voters going to vote for the best person for the party/principles or will they select the weakest candidate? Witness their choice of John McCain in 2008 to know why open primaries are not the answer.
I think what we are seeing is Asher, et al ,realizing that their 'way' is done, trying to save face without admitting anything. That's the only reasonable explanation for the statement that the Party has room for Toomey. The Party is the closest thing to dead, so this looks like they are running around to try to lead the parade as if Toomey's candidacy is just fine with them. If they think they can 'sell' Gerlach, then they are less capable than we think they are. They're faced with the inevitable. I'd enjoy it, but they are just such a bunch of hacks! My best bet today is that Toomey will NOT be opposed in the R primary and that Sestak will either oppose Specter or allowed himself to be used to push Specter further left than he already is so the whole Obamabot plan for America — God help us — gets pushed. Agree or not?
I think we need to look at the changes in PA. We are now considered a Blue state. We had over 2 million Democrats out register us in the last election. Our party needs to decide if they want to win. Although some may think we need to go far right to find ourselves again, the reality is we will NOT win with a super conservative candidate. We need someone more moderate. Someone who can win crossover votes. Tom Ridge would have been perfect. Most people are sick of Democrat's and Republican's. They want someone more moderate that can work party lines and actually get something done. If we don't take off the rose colored glasses our party will continue in this downward spiral.
HACK ATTACK (c) Bill Adams
Threat Level: RED
This, from Richard Viguerie: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/may/13/c...
One more thought…Asher is not trying to save face. For him to support Ridge last week who is a moderate and now this week start warming up to Toomey who is the opposite of Ridge. Asher is working on a plan that will work to his benefit. Asher is not for Toomey unless he can help Asher get what he wants.
Amen!
I want to shake your hand Frustrated R
I too think some on here need reality check. Rick and Swann both lost at state level, Bush never won it, McCain did even worse ( brand name of GOP played part here) we have lost 4 Republican Congressional seats over past 2 cycles and yet some are still saying we have lost cause we were not Conservative enough?
I really don't understand your thinking on losing with a Toomey and yet some of you say you rather lose then run a Moderate Republican; aren't you saying you are RINO then?
I am a Republican first and this is not SC we need to run a middle of road Republican who can appeal to those critical suburb voters and Toomey is not it
I have not heard any Toomey supporters say how he will change his image?
How will he overcome the statement daily in press he is far right of center?
How will he appeal to Moderate Republicans and convince them voting for Arlen over him is in their best interest?
The Club for Growth is a vile organization
It wastes money and resources attacking Republicans instead of attacking Dems
When Toomey loses in November will you guys then finally shut up on nominating extreme Conservatives at state level and finally get a clue that we need Moderate Republicans?
I don't think that because people are sick of the Ds and Rs that they are necessarily looking for a centrist or moderate… I think people are sick of these two groups because none of them or very very few of them actually say what they mean and mean what they say. What needs to happen is a clear definition of beliefs, values, and principles by the candidates and then those candidates need to stick to their basic principles and be respectful when they disagree with others… The problem has been lacking a clear definition and to two sides shouting back and forth saying they are to far this or to far that… we are a dynamic and varying culture but when you get down to the basic two party system a clear defintion needs to be there between the two groups because if one appears to be to similar to the other than why would people vote the other way… Yes PA has become more democratic but all of those new people can't be all committed leftists and the majority are moderate just like moderate repubs who vote both ways… The biggest thing needed for Republicans is as Reagan said, "No pale pastels but bold colors" blurring the lines through being moderate will not help the cause across the board…. After all one of the most moderate Republicans in the party was the nominee for President last year and he lost the election and lost Pennsylvania if a moderate republican can't win as president then why should we continue to try this style of moving the party to the center in our state… All this will lead to is a continued slide of losing more and more in the state and eventually all the Repub party will be in PA is the rural areas… It is time to create a clearly defined platform with conservative principles in order to win more… And what is the hurt in trying because Rs are losing in the state anyhow, so lets see what happens and if they lose at least they will have done so with dignity and staying true to the values.
Why do you care whether Moribus cares whether she cares?
You want open primaries????? It was the open primaries prior to PA's primary in the presidential election that gave you McCain. Dems crossed over and voted for him. He wasn't the real republican nominee. Consequently there was no real clear choice in that race. I say all primaries should be closed. People will be forced to actually re-register if they want to vote in the other party's primary. Many will not go to that effort.
I wrote my comment before I read your post. You covered my thoughts.
You hit on a really great point, being a conservative first and republican second. The democrats have gone to the extreme left and far too many people have been trying to pull the republican party to the left. "We have to be inclusive". That's a load of BS. The failure of the republican party has been the inclusion of RINOs, moving the party to the left. Specter and the talking bobbleheads want everyone to believe the failure of the republican party is because it went too conservative. Just another load of BS. I've seen far too many people drop out of the republican party and they've all told me the republican party left them. If the problem doesn't get fixed and people don't pay attention, there won't be a republican party, just liberal and liberal lite.
Dave,
Pat Toomey only needs to be the same Pat Toomey that won in the Lehigh Valley THREE TIMES, once by as much as FIFTEEN POINTS. He pummeled the popular former mayor of Allentown, former Sen. Roy Afflerbach, by 10 pts. The Lehigh Valley has the same demographics as PA as a whole. Same D to R bent, same proportion of ethnic sub-populations, etc. The "experts" thought Toomey would lose all three times. All three times he proved them wrong in dramatic fashion. What we need are LOYAL Republicans to stop dreaming up ways to run our guy down that are counter to his electoral track record and instead focus their energies on the Democrats. Instead of planting a seed of destruction that Pat "might be too conservative" how about getting it out there that in 2004 Specter fell asleep at the end of their lone debate; six years later, at age 80, how can he possibly survive a rematch with Toomey? Given his enormous flip-flopping, taking a pounding now from the left, center, and right combined, how can he possibly survive the fall election? Come on Dave. Be a loyal Republican and quit sabotaging our team.
When he wins in November will you shut up in return? Didn't think so…
The Club for Growth isn't a Republican organization, it's a fiscally conservative one. Having trouble figuring out that the Republican Party isn't considered principled and trustworthy by everyone, are you?
Translation: Asher is for retaining and increasing Asher's hold on power in the Republican Party hierarchy.
If the Republicans do as you wish, they will never win another election. I can guarantee you that the conservative grassroots will either sit on their hands or walk away. What you're advocating is the "Whigification of the Republican Party. A party doesn't keep voters and win elections by being at best indifferent or at worst antithetical to the principles and beliefs of its core voters.
You're exactly right: you don't understand the thinking. We are decidedly NOT Republicans first. We're principled conservatives who the Republicans can have as voters anytime they present a candidate who holds the beliefs we do. The Republicans lose over and over because they don't do so and we don't vote for them. Perhaps you don't know it, but elections are generally won or lost on the Republican turnout. The Democrat percentage of the vote remains pretty much the same in nearly all elections. If the Republicans put up someone who excites us, they can win. You'll also probably not notice that all the Republicans you mention (perhaps, but only perhaps, not Bush) were perceived as never supporting conservative principles, as repudiating in action their lip-service to those principles, or as being the puppet of a non-conservative Party boss. None of your examples convince.
The Republican Party has already reached the point of no return. When conservatives who are still registered as Republicans realize this, then we can begin to build a truly conservative party.
so you're telling me that hardcore dems who had the clash of the century in their own party between hillary and obama, opted instead to go vote for the 75 year old republican mccain? im sorry you're wrong. wishful thinking maybe to prove your point, but still wrong.
Apparently you didn't pay attention to the news during the primaries or since for that matter. It was dems and independents in the other states' primaries before PA's primary.
Do you really think Dave is a republican? He certainly is no conservative. It's been explained to him upteen times and he still spouts the "moderate" mantra. Frankly he sounds more like the dem talking points I hear from the pinheads on tv that keep telling the republicans they can only win with the left leaning guy/gal. The dems aren't interested in helping repubs win. They know that's a losing option for the repubs. McCain was the ultimate left leaning repub and look where that wound up.
Correct, Doug. To us it's country before party and some here are incapable of grasping that point.
Club for Growth is about wasteful spending and high taxes that RINO Republicans share responsibility with Democrats for……….
I respectfully disagree. I am very loyal to my republican values. I just think as a republican living in a blue state you need to be realistic. If we were living in a red state and winning elections hands down because they are basically uncontested, then by all means be narrow minded and feel that conservatives should rule the world. To me that would be a perfect world. That's not what Pennsylvania looks like. Unfortunately for a republican to win in PA they need to be open minded and respectful of everyone they represent. Not saying they need to give up their values and become a RINO. I'm sorry we are out numbered here and it get's worse every year. Our demographics have changed.
I care because I'm a Republican who wants the GOP to get back to its foundational roots; if DM had anything worthwhile to contribute, I wouldn't mind. But she can't even provide an option or alternatives.
As for "good government", do you know how many times I have heard RINOs use that phrase to justify their assinine actions?
And I am only nasty with jackasses – jackass!
a) Why do you care?
b) What alternative do you offer?
I'm still curious to know whether you will be supporting Toomey in the General Election. Once you clear the air on that, then we can proceed with any intellectual destruction of your RINO principles.
Sad but true.
But what alternatives does that leave for the "remnant" of patriots trying to do the right thing? I see only two: either reform the GOP back to fundamental conservative/constitutional principles, or start a new political party. Seems to me the lesser of two evils…
Rah, Rah for the new republian, liberal lite party? If I have to pretend I'm liberal to win an election the results isn't worth the effort. I'd rather be conservative and lose all elections than lie and win. Which is probably why the country has gotten so corrupt. Win at any cost. Arlen Specter has no principles and it shows. Throw all the RINOs out of the republican party and show voters elected republicans will be honest and stand up for people and republican candidates will win elections.
The fight on the left wasn't over issues or direction of the party.
Hillary and Obama disagreed mainly on who should hold the power. They didn't didn't disagree on the issues. (For that matter, McCain didn't disagree with either of them all that much either.) Their priorities may have been different, but either one would have pursued the same goals and that left liberals free to distort the GOP primary.
Crawl out from under your rock and realize that only unprincipled weasels despise those with principles.
That's not the way I'm seeing it. It's the conservatives leaving the republican party and telling me the republican party left them. The biggest load of BS is that conservatives took over the republican party. That is totally false. I see liberal dems registering republican to run in elections, our so called beloved RINOs. Some win, most don't but they stay republican to steer the party in the wrong direction. Conservative republicans I know that switched to democrat in the latest election did so in hopes of messing with Clinton/Obama. Many are still registered as D. The ones fed up with the taakeover of the republican party by the RINOs registered Indpendent and they ain't coming back until the RINOs are gone, which I don't see happening in the near future. I am a registered republican and I'm a county committee member. I expect before too long I will be switching to Independent since there is no "Conservative" party like they have in some other states, and I don't expect to re-register as a republican if the party keeps moving or stays to the left.
Ray: I appreciate the fact that you realize that there are good people trying to do good things in the GOP, I have no problem with critiques of the GOP, but I resent non-Republicans such as DM attacking the GOP without providing a practical alternative
As for personal attacks, I think you're confusing critcism with vendetta. DM and I agree on some areas but it is apparent that she and I are world's apart when it comes to application – she is a libertine, I am a constitutionalist. It is what it is. That said, I only "attack" when assertions are made that are illogical or contrary to practical application or, worse yet, fly in the face of genuine constitutional principles as outlined and embraced by our Founders.
As for the rules for GrassrootsPA, I will consider your concerns relevant when you become the enforcer of the rules. Until then, I appeal to Caesar (in this case, Chris).
Isn't it rather arrogant and presumptuous to claim that there are too few good people within the GOP to make it worthwhile reforming?
And I am well aware that both you and DM are non-Republicans – but doesn't that justify my asking why you care about the internal workings of the GOP? You claim it is because of your concern over having good people serve in government, but, quite frankly, if you're not a Republican why should any of us who are trying to restore the party bother to listen to you? Heck, you spend plenty of time throwing stones at the GOP but neither you nor DM nor Nathan nor any other third party/independent gave provide conservatives and constitutionalists with a viable alternative.
If all you are going to do is demean the effort of good people trying to do the right thing, then how are you and your fellow GOP critics any better than Democrats?
As for DM, my position remains the same; if you don't want to believe me, that's your problem.
I said nothing about 'good government'. I said having good people in government. There is a difference.
Dolley has contributed plenty to this forum (and others) both in reasoned opinion and in documented facts. She does the heavy lifting on many issues as well as raising pertinent questions that don't often get asked.
You've been on a mission to attack her and you are using her leaving the corrupt and inept GOP as yet another excuse.
I want the government to be back within it's constitutional bounds. If the GOP is somehow able to make that happen, I will be the first to congratulate them, but as long as the Gleasons, Ashers, Ridges, and others of their ilk are still the big guns, you are aiding and abetting our demise when you support the GOP.
The parties only understand money and votes. Give it to them and they will continue their evil ways. Withhold them, and you get their attention or they wither and die.
Did you miss the part of the rules that discourages personal attacks? Obviously you did.
Not at all.
There are good people both in office (fewer) and in the rank and file (more) but in which direction has the PARTY been going? Leftward to the point that it is to the left of the 1960s democrats. That's not progress.
Not being a member of the party does not stop us from voting for good candidates but it do show the powers that be that we aren't content to provide them with money that will fund their perversion of the party.
Demean? We question the honesty and sincerity of those who tell us one thing and then do the opposite. It's healthy to point and criticize the hypocrites. We harp on them being RINOs while they (the RINOs join with the democrats to say that we (conservatives) are far right wing extremists.
Again, if you can't recognize the difference, you are part of the problem. And if you cannot tell where DM stands, or where her heart is, no one can explain it to you.
The relatively few good people are not enough to justify propping up the many bad/evil/corrupt/selfserving RINOs.
DM is a 'non-Republican for almost a year. Same with me and many, many other loyal and dedicated constitution loving conservatives. Are you basing our worth on party membership? DM and the rest of us have provided an option — LEAVE! You staying keeps the RINOs in power.
I believe that in your zeal to protect the GOP you have replaced criticism of ideas with attacks on people. Your attacks on Dolley are not based on her ideas. They are about her personally and that's what I find offensive and out of place in these discussions.
Pffftttt.
Conservatives and constitutionalists within the GOP are working hard to reform the party; all you and DM can do is drive down our efforts. It is demeaning and discouraging. We can't please the RINOs (nor do we want to) but neither can we please you outsiders; we get attacked and insulted and told that we are either too conservative or are (incrediblely) not conservative enough!
WHAT THE HELL DO YOU PEOPLE WANT FROM US???
Unitl you or DM or Nathan or the rest of your libertine ilk can provide a reasonable alternative to changing the GOP from within, why don't you just shut up and let us do what we can? Stop acting like fringe malcontents who cannot or will not fix what is broken.
In short, you are the problem, not the solution.
LMAO
You obviously don't read the posts here if you put me on the same side as Shrader. I doubt that he and I agree on much of anything.
Libertine? No. I am a small l libertarian. I want small, unobtrusive government with limited constitutional power. Just because I don't want the government having the power to pry into our private lives doesn't mean that I approve of certain behaviors. Not every act of stupidity or sin should be crimes, and certainly not federal crimes.
Are you seeking to grant more power to the Feds? Isn't that what Obama is doing?
Why dont you answer my question: WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM US?
Nice, intelligent response.
Try answering the question.
That was a serious question? I thought that you were just whining again.
Are we even allowed to answer that question since we aren't members of your elite group of Republicans?
What makes you think that we want anything from you or from the GOP?
I left the GOP because I was tired of being lied to and being used. Maybe if you ever wake up and realize that the GOP is a huge part of the problem then you will understand. Maybe.
That was a serious question? I thought that you were just whining again.
Are we even allowed to answer that question since we aren't members of your elite group of Republicans?
What makes you think that we want anything from you or from the GOP?
I left the GOP because I was tired of being lied to and being used. Maybe if you ever wake up and realize that the GOP is a huge part of the problem then you will understand. Maybe.
The question was in all capitals; how could you have been so ignorant as to not realize I wanted an answer? And I wouldn't have asked it if I didn't want a response.
If you don't want anything from the GOP or the conservatives and constitutionalists working to reform it, then why do you and DM and the rest of your ilk persist in demeaning the efforts made to promote decent candidates and refomers?
I don't care why you left the GOP; if you think you have found an alternative to it, then share the secret (so far all that has been heard are platitudes without application). What mechanism do you propose conservatives and constitutionalists use if not the Republican Party?
Stop playing dodge ball and answer the questions.
From you, nothing. The Republicans can keep you.
Take the stick out of your butt Lou, because it's the same one you'll use to tax us to death.
Jebus doesn't want sticks used in either of your two preferred methods.
i think a lot of people will be suprised at how well pat does when he hits the ground running
Why don't you try answering the questions for a change, instead of just dismissing out of hand those people who won't swallow everything you have to say?